Posts by Brock Talon

31

A poll of sorts: How long have you been a "fader" for?

by SecretSlaveClass in

i'm curious about the following:.

1) how long have you been a fader for?.

2) how often do you still get pressure from congregation members and/or family to return as an active witness?.

Brock Talon

I faded 15 years ago and I have never stepped into a Kingdom Hall since that time.

I faded then because I thought I would want to keep speaking with JWs, but since then, found I really don't want to be around them much. I get contacted here and there by JWs I know, but as time goes on, this is less and less. (My last contact from someone out of the blue was just last week as a matter of fact.) I have minor chit chat with them still and it is pleasant enough if I happen to run into most of them around town. My parents and immediate family themselves faded many years ago, so that's a moot point for me. So, fading worked for me well in that way. I was able to wean myself away from the religion without having to feel total abandonment during that time.

I stay faded now because I like having taken the power away from them. I feel I am beating them at their own game. They can't outright shun me as a DF'd or DA'd person, but of course many "mark" me as a weak person. Still, there is no reason for them NOT to talk to me and I sometimes force the issue to see where it will go. It's fun watching an elder I didn't particularly like squirm to pretend to be friendly to me because he "has to", but would rather not be around me at all. If a get treated rudely by someone, I ask them why they are being that way. "Is that any way to treat a weak brother who needs the spiritual help from a mature Christian? I need your love, not your judgement..." Of course, these people never really loved me when I was in, so I know they certainly don't now. But I enjoy seeing how they will react to the corner they have painted themselves into by pretending to care about me. I feel I can convict them in their phoniness every time since I have never given them reason to treat me badly. I like this because in the end, I really don't care what they think about me any longer. It's sort of like what happens when you grow up and return to the school you left, where the teachers there no longer have any power over you. It's fun just being yourself to people who used to control your life, but now have to respect you on their own level.

So being faded gives me the power, and gives me an opportunity to speak a mild version of TTATT to individuals who I think can take it. It's my way of witnessing to the Witnesses. This is the main reason I stay faded and remain anonymous on ex-JW boards. This is especially so since I have published two books about my life as a JW, and as a Bethelite.

I write about the issue of fading in my book "Escape from Paradise" and how difficult it can be to pull off. But unlike Paul Simon's "50 ways to leave your lover", the are only 4 ways to leave the JWs:

1. Disfellowshipping
2. Disassociation
3. Fading
4. Death

...and for some, death may be the easiest way.

9

A must read for all JW's and Ex-JW's

by iwasblind in

hi guys.

i am about 60% through the book exiting the jw cult: a healing handbook: for current & former jehovah's witnesses .

i bought this book because of a post about it last week so a big thank you for that.. i must say that everyone on this forum should consider giving this book a go.

Brock Talon

iwasblind,

It is great that you shared this book with us in the forum, especially since it touched you personally. I think I will check this one out myself now that you've pointed it out.

If you haven't already done so, please make sure to write a nice review for the book on Amazon.com or Amazon.co.uk (wherever you bought it). This is the best way to recommend an author, as well as to get more readers for her since that review will have many eyes for quite some time.

Remember: you can do the review anonymously if you need to.

-Brock Talon

18

Books by Former Witnesses

by GiftsinMen in

i am interested in reading books published by former jws which detail personal experiences of their time with the organisation.

i know of coc, exiting the jw cult, mamas club, 30yrs a wt slave, and told ones were written by otwo, punk and terry.

i'd like to spend some time making my way through them so titles, authors and links would be really useful.

Brock Talon

One of my favorites is little known book: The Armageddon Cult, by Daniel LeEarl Hall.

http://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Cult-Daniel-LeEarl-Hall-ebook/dp/B00N7LVWH4

It is a great mixture of personal memoir (at the beginning) followed by a scathing rebuke of all Jehovah's Witness doctrine and dogma.

Daniel has a very interesting history as an ex-JW, as he was known to be a very successful business owner that employed hundreds of JWs. He was not always liked by all JWs back then, and he acknowledges his mistakes in the book. I didn't know him at that time, but I do know him now, and I find him to be a gentle and sweet man who has in his golden years set up a ministry to try to help others escape from the clutches of the Watch Tower. Over all and amazing story of redemption that I found inspiring.

Brock Talon

25

Will the resurrected marry/have children?

by davidmitchell in

i have just finished reading 'brock talon's' two books.

in one of them, entitled journey to god's house, pub.

he comments on how the wt's pictures of the post-armageddon world do not agree with their doctrines, namely that those who are physically resurrected will not marry/have children.

Brock Talon

Hey Introvert 2,

When Big Tex comes back in the resurrection, this is probably what he'll say:

YEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW!

25

Will the resurrected marry/have children?

by davidmitchell in

i have just finished reading 'brock talon's' two books.

in one of them, entitled journey to god's house, pub.

he comments on how the wt's pictures of the post-armageddon world do not agree with their doctrines, namely that those who are physically resurrected will not marry/have children.

Brock Talon

I just found this thread and wanted to add to it that the main reason I wrote about marriage and the resurrection in my book Journey to God's House was because it was a pretty important topic when I was a young man at Bethel.

Most of us believed that if we died and were resurrected, we would never be able to marry and to have children, and of course never have sex. Some of us were twenty-something virgins that never had sex to begin with, so the prospect of remaining virgin for eternity was very disconcerting. The Aid Book at that time promoted this belief. All of the elders and Bethel "heavies" promoted this... except one GB that I mention in my book. (He always seemed to have a mind of his own and didn't hesitate to state things his own way, which I also found very interesting.)

I want to make this clear: this issue was IMPOSSIBLE to ignore as a young JW 30+ years ago. We might be able to look back at this now and laugh about it, but this was not a small deal for me as a young JW. It wasn't for most of my JW friends either, especially us Bethelites who were mostly thinking of remaining at Bethel our whole lives and had a limited prospect of getting married as long as we stayed there. The sacrifices we made to be at Bethel then were not just for this life, but potentially a sacrifice of no sex for eternity! Heavy stuff that, especially if you were as oversexed as I was then.

For those that notice, my books are mainly about the way the JW faith affected my life and the lives of people around me. I don't focus on doctrinal issues because frankly, most doctrinal issues didn't affect my life. Is God a Trinity or not? How many people go to heaven? Is the soul immortal? Is the GB the Faithful and Discreet Slave? And so, on... these things didn't affect my day to day life one bit. Frankly, they still don't. So, I wrote about the way that the JW teachings and behaviors affected my life. As a result, I realize my books are not as enlightening as many of the excellent ones out there, like those from Franz and Penton, etc. They fill a need that I cannot because I don't have their experiences or qualifications.

But what I wanted to do was to write about how things affected me personally, and hopefully have that resonate with others who had similar experiences. As a result, my books then don't really try to give answers - they are designed to make you think and come up with your own.

By DavidMitchell's posting here, I can perceive this: mission accomplished.

Brock Talon

10

The Great Apocalypse is Coming in July - Here is a Preview

by DT in

trailer for the first book of the sparlock of the multiverse trilogy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouvwf1mncog&feature=youtu.be.

here is a recording of the prologue:.

Brock Talon

Very creative. I like your website too. I wish you well with your endeavors. - Brock

55

JWs and their views on Sex

by campaign of hate in

in the past i have read on this forum that the wt have a say in the "bedroom" of couples.

i thought that was a bit overkill at first, but recently i have come to conclusion that this is true.. the control administered by the wt cooperation on ones sex life is not on only intrusive, its damaging.

they control every aspect of ones thought and action, thus leading most down a path that said corporation wants them to tread.. this path is to get married young, and then eternal loyalty the the organisation.. so how can an organisation force you to get married young?.

Brock Talon

konceptual99,

I appreciate the clarifications of your earlier comments. I did feel you were being a bit dismissive of, and over simplifying a severe problem among Jehovah's Witnesses. It is good to see you are balanced on the topic. I don't post much on this board, but I did so on this topic because I believe it to be an important one, especially for the young people reading these posts because I worry for them.

That said, I want to add some more food for thought for you regarding your belief that the vast majority of problems in marriages is due to being "hitched to the wrong person". Although that is probably a true point, this is still related to the sexual repression of the JW faith. It is a problem of their own making for their adherents due to the unreasonable expectations of dating and marriage. It is not a separate issue.

If you ban masturbation and teach premarital sex (even once) can cause your destruction, the only logical way out is to marry, and marry young.

If you limit your potential marriage mates to whomever is eligible in the Kingdom Halls in your small community, or to the gal or guy circling around and around at the assemblies, the only logical way out is to marry the person that is the least objectionable.

If you tell young people that not only do they have to be JWs, but "in good standing and showing exemplary spiritual convictions, like pioneering and ministerial work" etc., the only logical way out is to pick anyone who may qualify that isn't too hideous.

If you tell young people they have to be chaperoned during dating and cannot even discuss sex before marriage alone with their potential spouses because it can "lead to things", the only way out is to marry that person in sexual ignorance and hope you are sexually compatible.

If you teach (or even imply) that oral or anal sex is "wrong" for married couples, and that masturbation is wrong post marriage as well, the only logical way out is to refrain and be sexually repressed and have your marriage suffer.

...or you can do as you have suggested many do and ignore all of these things, only to be terrified you will be discovered and have it all come crashing down on you, all the while suffering from crippling guilt...

Neither choice is all that good if you are a JW.

From what I have learned of other Christian churches since leaving the Watch Tower, it is fairly unique among Jehovah's Witnesses... at least to the extremes suffered by those in that faith. Other Christian churches simply just do not inflict these things as severely upon their members as the good old WTS does.

55

JWs and their views on Sex

by campaign of hate in

in the past i have read on this forum that the wt have a say in the "bedroom" of couples.

i thought that was a bit overkill at first, but recently i have come to conclusion that this is true.. the control administered by the wt cooperation on ones sex life is not on only intrusive, its damaging.

they control every aspect of ones thought and action, thus leading most down a path that said corporation wants them to tread.. this path is to get married young, and then eternal loyalty the the organisation.. so how can an organisation force you to get married young?.

Brock Talon

Flipper,

Thanks for your post. Even though I shouldn't be by now, I'm still shocked and amazed that this religion can get into marriages like that. Your story proves this was not all made up in my mind or exaggerated as some have tried to imply when I tell my own story. Apologists want to minimize or hedge just how intrusive this particular religion is with regards to sex, which to my mind is way more intrusive than the "average" religion is.

How many religions will actually excommunicate their people for having oral sex with their spouse?

How many religions will actually remove their people from various "privileges" and "good standing" for engaging in masturbation?

Do the Amish do that? Do the Scientologists do that? How about the Bahai faith? Mormons? I don't think so.

This is on top of all the other "regular" prohibitions on sex that most religions practice (due to Biblical principles that are themselves taken to extremes) the Watch Tower and the JWs take it to new heights.

For those that don't think this still exists in their JW congregations, I say this: Ask your elders. Better yet, go tell them you like to 69 with your spouse every weekend and masturbate when you are alone on business trips and see where that gets you.

55

JWs and their views on Sex

by campaign of hate in

in the past i have read on this forum that the wt have a say in the "bedroom" of couples.

i thought that was a bit overkill at first, but recently i have come to conclusion that this is true.. the control administered by the wt cooperation on ones sex life is not on only intrusive, its damaging.

they control every aspect of ones thought and action, thus leading most down a path that said corporation wants them to tread.. this path is to get married young, and then eternal loyalty the the organisation.. so how can an organisation force you to get married young?.

Brock Talon

I don't keep up with the new Watch Tower beliefs at all because I think them all to be nonsense and don't waste my time with such things any more, so I might be missing something. Maybe you guys can help me here.

That said, I would think that unless a Watchtower came out an negated the stuff I just showed that was published in the 70s and 80s Watchtowers, it would still apply. You can't even claim "old light" / "new light" with something unless the so-called new light or new clarifications or new thinking or new whatever is actually claimed somewhere.

So, does anyone have any quotes from any literature since the dates of those publications that has specifically negated or minimized the above crap that the Watchtower told me as a young person about oral sex or masturbation?

If not, then this stuff STILL APPLIES and can be used against any person in a JW Kingdom Hall committee meeting.

These were not "supposed" sex rules by the way, they were real. Maybe people are ignoring them now and they are simply old rules in the book, but if they haven't been revoked, they are still in the book.

55

JWs and their views on Sex

by campaign of hate in

in the past i have read on this forum that the wt have a say in the "bedroom" of couples.

i thought that was a bit overkill at first, but recently i have come to conclusion that this is true.. the control administered by the wt cooperation on ones sex life is not on only intrusive, its damaging.

they control every aspect of ones thought and action, thus leading most down a path that said corporation wants them to tread.. this path is to get married young, and then eternal loyalty the the organisation.. so how can an organisation force you to get married young?.

Brock Talon

konceptual99

Perhaps the last 20+ years point qualification you make about WTS and sex is valid, I don't know. But this is the stuff I grew up with, and let me tell you, it had a BIG affect on me and on my peers. If you were not affected by this stuff, then you are relatively young:

"Thus 'fornication' is set forth as the only ground for divorce. In the common Greek in which Jesus’ words are recorded, the term 'fornication' is por·nei'a, which designates all forms of immoral sexual relations, perversions and lewd practices such as might be carried on in a house of prostitution, including oral and anal copulation... Hence, circumstances could arise that would make lewd practices of a married person toward that one’s marriage mate a Scriptural basis for divorce. For example, a wife may do what she reasonably can to prevent her husband from forcing upon her perversions such as are carried on in a brothel. Yet, due to his greater strength, he might overpower her and use her for perverted sex. So as not to be prostituted in this way at another time, a Christian wife may decide to get a divorce... If, on the other hand, the lewd practices were engaged in by mutual consent, neither mate would have a basis for claiming por·nei'a as a Scriptural ground for divorce. This is so because neither party is innocent and seeking freedom from a mate guilty of por·nei'a. Both marriage partners are guilty. Such a case, if brought to the attention of elders in the congregation, would be handled like any other serious wrongdoing." (Watchtower, 1974, November 15, pages 703-704.)

"What, though, if one mate wants or even demands to share with his or her partner in what is clearly a perverted sex practice? The above-presented facts show that porneia involves unlawful sexual conduct outside the marital arrangement. Thus, a mate’s enforcing perverted acts, such as oral or anal sex, within the marriage would not constitute a Scriptural basis for a divorce that would free either for remarriage... if it becomes known that a member of the congregation is practicing or openly advocating perverted sex relations within the marriage bond, that one certainly would not be irreprehensible, and so would not be acceptable for special privileges, such as serving as an elder, a ministerial servant or a pioneer. Such practice and advocacy could even lead to expulsion from the congregation." (Watchtower, 1983, March 15, page 31.)

"Likewise, unclean practices, such as masturbation, which can be a steppingstone to homosexuality, have been dealt with in a serious, yet understanding, way, to help individuals keep clean and pure in Jehovah's eyes." (Watchtower, 1976, February 15, pages 122-123.)

"Helpful in this regard, then, is appreciating the fact that autoeroticism or masturbation is no mere innocent pastime but rather a practice that can lead to homosexual acts." (Watchtower, 1970, May 15, page 315.)
"'Every serious statistical study that we have shows clearly that . . . at least ninety-five per cent of boys and young men between thirteen and twenty-five years of age pass through periods of habitual masturbation of varying lengths,' says one authority on the subject. As for girls, this source says that 'forty to fifty per cent are found to actually masturbate'.... Because masturbation is unnatural... Masturbation (like homosexuality) ignores or bypasses that natural arrangement. It is one form of leaving 'the natural use of the female' for 'one contrary to nature'... Because the practice is one 'contrary to nature,' the masturbator pays a mental penalty. The habitual practice cripples his social and emotional development, hinders his attaining a healthful outlook and attitude toward the other sex and toward people in general. It can 'turn the person inward' upon himself, making him introverted. Or it can, and frequently does, lead into homosexuality, in which the person, not satisfied with his lonely sexual activity, seeks a partner for mutual sex play." (Watchtower, 1973 September 15, pages 564-565.)